hoppe's journal

[hoppe as guest]

Hi ameise and seabreeze

Thank you for your kind words.

Ameise, you almost made me cry. I am glad, if I helped you! And I promise you, I will keep on checking in here as long as you need it - even if we are talking years.

Seabreeze, good to hear from you again. How are you doing?

I am feeling much better today. Still premenstrual though. Trying to stay away from my face!

BTW - did you notice the discussion on the support board, if 21 days really can make you pick-free? I know, it is not scientifically established, but hey, I would rather try 21-days and fail, than not try at all! Anyhow, I hope I can do it like ameise - 21 days without a major attack (I have 15 days so far) and then I will try to go for 21 days of complete ZT! (just writing that gives me the chills....)

talk to you later!

hoppe

[ameise as guest]

I'm glad you're feeling better, hoppe. Even though work will stay busy, I hope you feel a bit more relaxed now that you are not hosting.

And thank you for saying you'd be here for years in needed. I feel the same way.

I replied to the "can- 21-days- work" thread -- I wanted to put in some good words for it.

Day 8 here. I am having trouble not scratching at this one pimple while doing other things.... but that's not so upsetting as Picking-in-the-mirror has been my only true Big CSP issue.

I don't have more time now, but I wanted to mention -- I read the mother-daughter thread.... my mom, too, had a pore cleaning behavior... I don't think it was ever elevated to CSP for her -- but that is where I "learned" it.


hoppe, I can't see you post right now -- I think we are on similar Day #'s -- good luck with today, Day... is it 7, 8, 9..


Seabreeze, my best to you , too

Ameise

[seabreeze]

Hello Hoppe & Ameise,

I totally got thrown off today! Went into overtime in front of the mirror... maybe lasted 2 hours... kind of the trance thing... I am so upset about it. I was doing really well but things have been so tough lately and added up until I just couldn't take it anymore I am so frustrated with myself and I feel pretty hopeless right now. Why the hell would I do that? I know how bad it makes me feel... and that it doesn't solve anything... and only makes things so much worse. I have just been so worried about everything lately. I am newly married, getting used to a new apartment, starting a new semester with 5 courses that are extremely difficult for me, and worrying about money. I need to find a job now and I need to have enough time to study engineering without failing out.
On top of that, my parents separated last year, my mom lives with a new boyfriend, my dad is an alcoholic and lives alone, and my brother spent a month this summer in a hospital for mental health reasons. He has something like schizophrenia and serious mood and aggressive/anger problems. I don't have any other siblings so I have often felt very alone since I have noone I can talk to. My uncle has schizophrenia and it runs in families, so I am really worried about my brother. I don't want him to live the same life my uncle is living. My parents both have anxiety and depression and have not done a very good job of hiding that from me. Right now I feel sorry for my brother the most because he needed help a long time ago and my parents ignored his problem when they should have been helping him. It is very frustrating.

I am really at a low point now. Hope it improves tomorrow, because I really want to get over this. I am so genuinely glad for the two of you for going so far without any you know what. You guys are awesome and I am so glad everytime I read a post and know that you are experiencing happiness. It makes me really happy to know you guys are ok. Talk to you soon,

Seabreeze

[hoppe as guest]

Hi seabreeze and ameise

seabreeze, I read your post and I could feel your pain. I am sorry to hear about your slip up and the troubles with your family and the stress you are having with you studies and with trying to find a job. Sometimes I think, life is to damned hard, I do not know if it really is worth it. But there are the good moments too, the ones where everything is as it should be and the ones that make you want to continue to be able to experience another one of them.

seabreeze, I wish I could come and hold your hand for a while and say that it is going to be alright. That your brother will get better, and that you will find a great job and that you will pass all courses you are taking and above all - that we are going to beat this. I stilll believe that we can. But the truth is, that I came hear to confess that I too had a slip up yesterday, And it was such a good day. The sun was shining, my supervisor was happy with my progress at work, and I was day-dreaming about ZT. And then, when I came home in the evening, I performed a number on my cheek. It was bad. Things were to good, I had to destroy them.

However, I have learned a lot during the past weeks. I know that it will get better again. This morning, however, me cheek looked really bad. I did not touch it further, but I considered staying at home to hide from the world. But I did not do it. I went to work, where I am now, and I am glad I did it. Staying at home always makes everything worse. And - I also did something else before I left for work. I talked to my boyfriend. I thought, If he really cares for me as much as he says, then I should see if maybe he can help me some more. So, I asked him to participate in an experiment with me. The experiment is simple. For 7 days, I will not be allowed to be alone at any minute. The only exception is the toilet (where there is no mirror). In the morning, he drops me off at the subway and he arranges to be at home before I come. Surprisingly, he said yes. I think he is starting to understand that I am fighting with something big here and I need any help I can get. I do not know if it will work. But it is an experiment, and as I said before, I will rather try and fail than not try at all.

seabreeze, ameise, I wish the picker's retreat would exist and we could go there together all three for some time. But it does not. So I will try to create my own retreat here. I will let you know how the experiment is going.

ameise, there was something else, I wanted to ask you. You said, you wrote a letter to your father, and I wonder if you in the letter mentioned your picking? Do your parents know at all? I am also considering to write my father, simply because I have carried this pain around with me for so many years now and it is time that my father understands what he has done to me. However, I think my picking is closely connected to my previous experiences with my father and I think if I write him I should go for the whole truth, including the picking. But I need some advice on that... . I never talked to my parents about it before, so I do not know if they know anything. I see them so seldomely (2-3 years in between), so even if they noticed my skin in the past, I do not think they know that this is a chronic problem for me and has been for a long time now.

I have to get back to work now, but I will check in again latter today.

hoppe

[hoppe as guest]

Hi ameise and seabreeze

I am really really tired today. I think it is PMS related. I also did not sleep very well.

My crazy 'experiment' with my boyfriend is going okay. Yesterday, as long as my boyfriend was awake, I was not alone in front of a mirror for more than a minute or so. So no possibility to pick, except in front of him, which I just cannot get myself to do. However, the problem comes when he falls asleep. I was lying awake beside of him and could not help thinking 'now is the chance, now I can go and check my face'.... . I checked it, but did not pick at it, so that was good. But afterwards I could not fall asleep for a long time. I kept on thinking how crazy CSP is. I am doing this to myself. This is not another person mutilating my face, I am. God damnit, I should be able to just decide that I do not want to pick anymore, and then not do it again ever. Why am I not able to do that? What is wrong in my head??

Work is calling.... .

hoppe

[seabreeze as guest]

Hey Hoppe and Ameise,

I am feeling a bit better today and am healing up pretty well emotionally and physically from the other day. I think things are looking up again.

Hoppe, I hope you are feeling alright again. Please hang in there. You are doing so well- you have to keep going. Even if your boyfriend is sleeping, don't check the mirror! I know you are beautiful so you don't need to check!

Ameise, I had some time to read a few more posts that I have been missing out on...reading them inspires me. You have a lot of insight and I can relate to a lot of what you are writing as well. Hang in there, hope you are doing well!

Off to class,
:DSeabreeze

[ameise as guest]

I am sorry I haven't been able to get to the computer every day -- in part it is because I have been having to work at my office more often (instead of working from home) so there's less opportunity to come to the board; but also, with things going so much better, I do not feel as desperate for consolation.... that sounds selfish -- but what I really want to say is that when I read your posts, read that you both have had a couple hard days -- my heart went out to you & I also realized that I missed you guys...

So, Seabreeze, yes, I agree with hoppe -- life can certainly be difficult, can't it? Us with our picking, so many people with alcoholism (my parents, too), and I have had others close to me with pretty severe mental probs (manic depression) -- what is it about life that makes it so hard? that drives us all a times to these difficult places and low points? It really is strange... I guess it's kind of like chain reactions. we get hurt, we hurt each other, we respond in ways we wish we wouldn't... but, yes, I also beleive in the opposite kind of chain reactions... and like I've said, coming here, feeling you guys care about me, and each other, and me caring about you -- I can tell it's part of the good side of things.

And I'm glad, seabreeze, that you're feeling better.

Hoppe -- it's funny that you asked whether I told my dad about picking, because I was thinking just this morning about writing him another letter and telling him about it, telling him that's the main reason I'm in therapy -- maybe telling him about the "self injurious skin picking website."

I didn't tell him in the first letter. I considered it. I think it relates to him in that he tends to really value appearance, and I wanted him to know that part of the reason I sometimes get really irritated by that is that I feel like I have this tendency to seek perfection in appearance to the point of self-destructiveness...

I don't think he knows it is still an issue for me. He & my mom knew about it when I was a teenager. But my mom was far more aware of what a significant problem it was for me (I think.) When I was 20 they helped me pay to get a dermabrasion treatment -- so they knew my scars bothered me, and they knew I was commited to not causing any more scars. I believe my dad said something around that time along the lines of "your scars aren't as bad as you think -- there is only one I can see/ notice." and after the dermabrasion, I did go through a long time of far less picking -- in fact I have never really done major, scar-causing damage since then. So, given that I, too, saw them intermittently, and my skin was never as completely torn up as previously, I assume they both thought I had it under control.... but that's just my assumption. I never talked honestly with them about it at length.

hoppe, I am really impressed that you asked your boyfriend to help you -- especially when you had a new wound on your cheek. I still haven't told my boyfriend. I feel it will be easier now that my skin looks better, but I also feel less urgency, since I don't feel it distancing us. But, my point is, it was really brave of you to ask for that help, probably feeling that you were also drawing his attention to what you had done to your self. That is wonderfully brave and determined. I also like when you wrote that you think he is finally seeing what a big thing this is that you are fighting.

It really is... I remember a week or two after finding tis site, I had the thought: "this is really a powerful thought pattern that hoppe, and egiggy, and anonymous artist, etc & I have all gotten into... " The fact that so many people are struggling so hard with it showed me how powerful it is -- it made me feel less alone but scared me a little, too.

And reading about both of your bad days also scared me a little... on one hand, I know we have all made a lot of progress, & I can see that the important thing is that we are still trying, and learning more and more about different ways to try, methods, "experiments," how to let others help us with this, etc....

and I really do believe we will all get over this -- just as people can get over other addictions & disorders

It just scared me thinking/ remembering how slip-ups can come when you're doing well-- so unexpectedly. But I guess that’s another important “lesson” for us all to remember (but I swear sometimes it really seems unfair to me that we ever had to get into this pattern in the first place)

well, I am on day 10 of total ZT. I have had an annoying pimple come & finally I think it is leaving. I have a few more coming, but I think they're small, ignorable. I;ve been noticing a clogged pore on my forehead. I'm hoping all this is menstrual related-- including the fact that I am noticing these things... Like I said, for a while there, looking at my skin was seeming really boring to me...

But I imagine it'll take a long while of ignoring things to really get to that disinterested state for the long-term

But, I;m not finding it that hard to resist acting on my urges. And I'm really grateful for that.

My thoughts and hopefully some kind of strength-waves sent with my heart are with you guys,

ameise

[hoppe]

Hi ameise and seabreeze

It is friday evening, 9:00 pm. I am feeling much better. However, I am a little annoyed because my cheek is healing very slowly. I guess I deserve it?
My boyfriend is still watching my steps. Not as closely as I would wish, but if he does not see me, he checks up on me every 1-2 minutes, so that is good. It also feels strange. But I think it brings us closer together, so that is a positive side-effect.

Ameise, 10 days of ZT. I am very impressed. I hope your success continues. But please, if it does, do not forget about me/us. I really need you.

Seabreeze, thank you for calling me beautiful in your last post. I know, you have never seen me (except if we passed each other on the street here, but then you would not know), but it still felt good. I wish I could find myself beautiful. I know I am not ugly, and I am also aware that I have some features that are truly beautiful, like my lips, but when I look in the mirror, I see nothing else but my skin. I feel it completely dominates my appearance. And it also prevents me from living up to my true potential. For instance, some days I wear my hair really weird, but it is because I want to cover a pimple/wound. Or, when I am having a bad skin day, I catch myself thinking things like - oh, I cannot wear the red sweater today, even though I like it best, because it will draw to much attention to me, so I will go for the neutral, grey one, so nobody notices me ... .

I know, what you guys will say, that nobody else notices my skin as I do, but I am not sure that is true. For instance, today I met a new girl at work, which had some very bad eczema in her face. I was sitting beside her during a coffee-break, and I tried to have a conversation with her, but I really had problems. Every time I looked at her to reply something, my mind became completely emptied for thoughts, because all I could think of was her face. I thought, how does she feel about her skin, does it make her sad, does she think I am staring at it, does she cry when she looks in the mirror, does it affect her work, and so on. She was a very nice girl, and I felt really bad afterwards. And I could not help wondering, what other people think when they talk to me. Do they forget what they wanted to say when they see the wound on my cheek??

I know, I am a picker, I am obcessed with skin, I will look differently at other people than non-pickers will. I was a non-picker once, and I never noticed other peoples skin. But maybe I was just at the other end of the extreme. Back then, I never paid attention to my own skin, I did not really get pimples (maybe a small one once a month), I did not use any products on it, I did not use make-up, so I was absolutely not interested in skin (yet, I have a some close-up pictures, and I had so beautiful skin.... I just did not know it.....*sigh*). But I assume most people have some interest in their skin, partially because commercials constantly tell them how important it is to use this and that skin-product and to fight every little pimple or wrinkle or whatever. So I think, if you pay attention to your own skin, you will quite naturally also pay attention to others skin. What I am trying to say is, I really have no idea how much a 'normal' person notices somebody elses skin and its flaws. I just hope, they are not like I am now. And I also hope, that if I one day can beat this completely that I also will pay less attention to others skin... .

ameise, seabreeze, you are in my thoughts.

hoppe

[ameiseameise]

hello-

this will be a brief message - I have to leave momentarily to go write some letters to "Mainstream Moms Against Bush"

I am very happy to say it's Day 11. Like I said yesterday, I have been noticing lots of little pimples (more than ususual), so my focus on my skin is still here, but I'm not finding to that hard to say to myself "no, you're on the 21 day ZT." I wonder how long I will still have to think about this, how long it will feel like enforcing a rule -- oh well, I am amazed I can follow it at all.

hoppe, I know exactly what you mean about noticing other people's skin. I talked to my therapist about it a lot last week -- I know my perspective on how severe or mild skin problems are is distorted -- but I still cant' stop thinking about it sometimes, as with my friend who has what I think is sever acne scarring -- but I always find myself wondering: does my skin look that bad to other people. If I could just know .. for example "people think you skin looks about half as bad as hers, and most people don't think about it that much -- it crosses their mind for 3 seconds out of every 30 minutes they talk to you...." Or something like that -- I know I will never get such overall info about "what people think" -- but the point is, I focus on her skin far more than I want to because I just wonder so much about non-pickers perpectives. This particular person has lots of friends, a new husband, etc,,, and I can't help but wonder if her skin just doesn't bother her -- I would love to find out that she or others don't think about it that much... I guess I think about it a lot because I want to be able to use her situation as a measure or to compare mine to to use to take heart, "she is okay with damaged skin. so I can be, too"

yes, obsession with skin is very pointless and unpleasant.

sorry this post has been train of thought and mostly centered aorund that frustration f noticing skin

but, like you say, maybe hyper-awareness of skin will go away with the picking behavior

I'm glad to hear about your boyfriend following you & paying careful attention -- it's very sweet.

until later,

ameise

[hoppe]

Hi ameise

You made me curious - 'Mainstream Moms Against Bush'? Tell me more!

It is saturday evening here, 8:00 pm. I am about to leave to go to the cinema with my boyfriend (to see Fahrenheit 9/11 !). Feel a little anxiety. But otherwise I am okay. No picking for some days now - it feels very good. My PMS is also over, so my skin is better again. However, my cheek is still not completely healed! I really did not do that much damage to it... well, as some people pointed out in another thread, as time goes by, it takes longer and longer for the wounds to heal..... . Just another reason to stop this.

I have to go now. I hope you are doing fine, ameise. And you too, seabreeze. Are you still having so much stress?

hoppe

[hoppe]

Hi again

Sunday here, 12.40 pm.

No picking so far, but I feel a little tempted..... .

Tomorrow I have an appointment with a psychologist. It is just going to be another assessment to see if I can get some therapy later on. I am a little scared. I do not want to talk to a stranger about my problems. But I need to tell the whole truth, otherwise he will send me right out the door again. This has been a problem for me in the past. I can give the impression of being really strong and as if things are going well for me. It is something I have learned during the last seven years. People do not like beeing around you when you come across as sad, hopeless, anxious, etc. . I learned that lesson after my father left me. For a while, I let my pain be visible to others, I would talk about it and maybe even cry. But people turned away from me. Some time later, my former best friend told me, that people around me (including her) had felt some kind of responsibility for helping me, but there wasn't anything they could do, so it was easier to just stay away. It was a painful experience for me. However, since then everything has always been good, no matter who asked. I am fine. Things are going fine. Smile.... .

I remember, when I was bulimic, I went to a doctor once for help. But when I came there, I could not let him see my pain. I was small-talking about my bulimia as if it was a mild flue that would disappear by the end of the week. I remember him saying, how relieved he was that I was so positive and strong. Things would get better in no time, and I did not need any further help. And with that he let me go.
I came there, because I really wanted help, but in that moment it felt like a victory. I had fooled him. I went home and celebrated with my head down the toilet.

I do not know what to say tomorrorw. I have had two assessments earlier this year, a psychologist and a psychiatrist, and both of them had never heard of CSP or BDD before. It was really frustrating. It is like going to the doctor and having to explain to him what a broken leg is. I cannot get help, if the person on the other side of the table has no idea what I am talking about.... .

Enough about that. I hope things are going fine for you, ameise and seabreeze. I seldomly hear from you during the weekend, I guess you are busy with your family/boyfriend and cannot get to a computer??

hoppe

[hoppe as guest]

Hi ameise and seabreeze

Monday morning. I just arrived at work, after my meeting with the psychologist. He informed me that (as expected) he will do another assessment, which will take three meetings. After that I might get referred to psychotherapy (depending on his judgement), however, it will take between half a year and one year, before they will be able to take me in. I was slightly shocked, when he said that. But there is nothing I can do about it. Nothing at all. Except if I find the money to go to a private place, which would cost me half my paycheck, if I had one. However, so far I do not earn any money, so that is out of the question.

Anyway, apart from that he was nice, but very young, definitely less than 30. And very good looking. Because of that and his age, it was kind of difficult for me to talk to him about picking. I tried not to look at him to much. I think, he understood what it is about, but I do not know how well. Which does not really matter right now anyway. 1 year. I do not know why I try this at all.....

hoppe

[seabreeze as guest]

Hey Hoppe, I have to run to class in a minute because this prof closes the door and won't let anyone in after 10.

This weekend was pretty busy. I teach piano lessons and have been organizing the new apartment. My husband and I took a trip to IKEA ;D, which is 3 hours away from our city. It was really cool-when we got there, there were 2 big flags outside... Swedish and Canadian! Plus, my husband is the only one there who can pronounce the names of the furniture properly and tell me what they mean...lol!
I am really sorry about your unlucky situation with therapy. That is a long time to wait. I hope you can work something out, that something will become available for you... don't lose hope, and keep looking for all the options. I once had a male (young) therapist... I couldn't tell him anything... You are a lot braver than I am...

gotta run, hope you're doing fine
:DSeabreeze

[ameise as guest]

Hoppe I know exactly what you mean about pretending to be stronger than you are – even with my current therapist – who understands me finally pretty well – I went through a time where it was hard to convey how significant this is for me, because I kind of wanted to be optimistic myself – I wanted to believe that I was getting better, gradually, etc – and that may have been true, but obviously it was very important to get across how life-altering & painful this has been.
I also know what you mean about people finding it hard to be close to you when you are down – I have often thought what a vicious circle that can be – everyone wants to be around you when you are doing well, as if we transfer our radiance, etc… but the same when one is down – it almost seems people are subconsciously afraid of “catching” depressions, or struggles…. Or maybe not, maybe it’s like you say that people just feel powerless to help…<br>
Yes, I’m sorry I rarely get to the computer on weekends… I usually spend the weekend’s at my boyfriend’s house, so, since he is still in the dark, I only come to the board if he is not around ---Perhaps more reason to get up the confidence to tell him. I think I am coming a little closer to telling him, because the issue of appearance has come up a couple times lately, and I have expressed the feeling that there is so much pressure on women about that – so many women feel as if their value as a person is going to be judged based on their appearance. And I have told him that it is a sensitive/ important issue for me because I have been very hard on myself about my appearance… so we’ll see when I finally come out with it.

I am now writing from work –Monday afternoon. Let’s see I am on day 14. I am having a lot of trouble because I have several smallish white heads, and others forming. One of the whiteheads I left alone seemed to have turned into a larger pimple that hurts. I guess I am feeling like squeezing out the little whiteheads may be somewhat “helpful” in making them go away faster – but I am not letting myself do it, because I have this commitment to myself. And I do want to see at the end of the 21 days how I feel about the overall process of doing nothing.

But I am having more pimples right now than typically – I don’t think it is because of not emptying my pores – I am not sure why it is… and as hope wrote once before, a goal to strive for is to not always be trying to figure out “why this pimple” as if we have control over our skin because we don’t entirely.

So I know even with these multiple whiteheads and even the bump that hurts, that my skin looks better that it would with even one wound… Still, like I said, it feels like pushing out these little white heads would help them heal faster & it is feeling sort of confusing/ annoying that my skin is not responding to my efforts by being really clear… and I am feeling unclear about whether zero-tolerance can or should be my policy for the rest of my life, and afraid that if it’s not, then it becomes a slippery slope where it is too easy to go too far…<br>
Well – maybe this is all still part of menstrual-related break out time… normally I get pre-menstrual pimples – but these are still coming and I am about finished with my period….

I’ll just try to be patient. I guess I am somewhat glad for this chance to have some pimples that I really have to resist picking… to experience that I can resist…<br>
I am so glad to hear that you guys have been able to keep up your resolve as well ---as much as it scared me a little to hear of your slip-up days, it encourages me to hear & be reminded that every little slip up doesn’t have to lead to a downward spiral of trying to fix things/ picking/ checking, etc

Hoppe, I, too, am sorry to hear you’re having such a hard time getting a psychologist…<br>
It’s surprising, over here in the U.S., I had the impression that health care in the Scandinavian countries was far superior to here – universal health care…. I am surprised you have to wait – but perhaps waiting is the cost of care being available to ?everyone?

Mainstream Moms Oppose Bush (MMOB) is a group here that started a letter writing campaign where people are writing letters to single mothers who are not registered to vote – giving them the registration materials, and also sharing our feelings about why we are opposed to Bush. Non-moms like me can write the letters, but all the letters are to single moms.

That is all for now.

You know, writing here REALLY IS helpful – as I said, I am feeling frustrated that my skin is breaking out a little, but touching base with you guys reminds me of how we are working on such a big issue for ourselves, and reminds me that these few pimples are nothing compared to how big a presence picking has been in my life.

[hoppe as guest]

Hi ameise and seabreeze

Thank you for your posts!

Seabreeze - IKEA. I love that place. I spent quite a few days there after we moved to our new apartment. BTW - I just heard the one book in the world that has been printed in more copies than the bible is the IKEA catalouge... ;D .

Also interesting to hear that you teach piano lessons. I really want to start taking lessons again - but it is quite expensive. However, I have actually considered giving it to myself as kind of a reward if I get through this and beat the picking demon.

Ameise, I like that you are political. I hope you have success with MMOB!
I am also so proud of you because you still are showing such exceptional strength. The little bastards will disappear soon, I am sure. I also recognize your description of the feeling to be able to resist. It is interesting and can be a nice feeling. I mean that is when you really know that you can do it. As long as there is no temptation, you do not know how you will react the second it comes along. But if it is there and you resist it, then you know you can beat it ! Continue to be strong. I know you can do it!

I have to admit that I am really sad about the therapy situation. It is not like I think that therapy will be the answer to all my problems, but I was looking forward to trying it. Now I do not know what to do. Yesterday evening, I was really sad about this. And when my boyfriend disappeared in front of the television to see his favourite show, I ended up in front of the mirror. In principle, we are still doing the 'experiment' but he just forgot about it for an hour. It was really stupid. I left the room to go to the toilet, passed the mirror, stood there for some moments to long and suddenly I was picking. And when my boyfriend did not call me or check up on me, because he was so absorbed in the TV show, I saw it as a possibility to just continue. Stupid! I think I stopped myself relatively quickly, but it was frustrating. A stretch of good days and I fail again. But I am still able to acknowledge the good days, and I will continue the fight.

I have to run now. Talk to you later!
hoppe