very personal subject

[dandelion]

I'm not sure if I should even be writing about this, as it doesn't completely relate to all of us pickers, but I really need some advice. As a little girl I can remember playing 'house' with my best friend (a girl, and I am also female) but not as you guys expect. We would pretend we were going to sleep as a married couple and we would kiss each other and touch each other in ways that little girls should not know how to do (I think I was about 7 years old and so was she). I was watching Oprah today and some girl who had been molested cuts herself, and I was thinking this could be the reason I pick. I don't ever remember being molested by anybody as a child (from an adult that is). So I am thinking it was her who learnt this behaviour, because how else would a little child learn to touch in such a way. Currently I cry every time I am intimate with my boyfriend and lately I just avoid it and really feel like it is gross and makes me feel dirty. I have been debating whether or not I should confront my friend and discuss what went on and whether she was ever molested, so I can understand why we acted such a way, but I am really scared and don't want to upset her. However, I feel like this could be the key to my low self esteem, picking and intimacy problems and could be an life altering event. I just need advice on whether I should risk confronting my friend? I need a little shove to go through with it, what do you all think, and thank you if you even read this far.

[running2stndstill]

I am hesitant to respond to this because I'm not sure what is the right thing to say. I saw part of oprah today, so I know what you are talking about with the girl who is the cutter- it was so sad, and it must have taken an unbelievable amount of courage to reveal herself like that.

With respect to your experience, I have heard that it is fairly normal for children to explore things like you did with eachother, often mimicking things they have seen on tv etc. But I am not an expert by any means, and I can't remember where I heard this. And I don't want to minimize what you are feeling, because it is really bothering you, and that is the most important part- for you to understand why you feel ashamed/guilty/upset about what happened, and work through it.

Hugs,
K

[dandelion]

I have heard that children have experimented like this, but I really don't feel like this is the case...I guess just because it impacted me so much. Also it happened a lot not just once, it even went on for a couple of years. It had me thinking I was a lesbian at one point (not that there is anything wrong with that), but im not. As well her father used to be an alcoholic and is verbally abusive to his entire family. Are two families used to be very close but drifted apart after learning how abusive he was to the family (especially his wife) and we couldn't watch it anymore. I don't know, maybe it was experimenting, I just don't see how a child can learn such intimate actions unless they were watching some pretty erotic television. When we became teenagers we stopped hanging out all together and when we do see each other it seems like we act so fake towards each other and uncomfortable (but maybe im the uncomfortable one). We always promise to spend more time together but it never happens. I don't want to bother her since she seems to be doing so well at school but I don't know if I can get out of my depression without learning why it happened.

[lauryn]

i was molested by my half brother when i was four

coupla questions

did you just start thinking about this recently or have these occurences been plaguing you for a while?
what makes you think that its not like other kids who experimented.
i know i did a whole lot of what i think now to be more than just experimenting with my friends when i was younger.

[dandelion]

no I have been thinking about it for a very long time, almost 10 years and I believe it is probably why I have hated myself since I was old enough to know that what we did wasn't normal.

[dandelion]

I don't know how to answer why I think it was more then experimenting. I guess I don't think most children do the stuff we did, especially at 7 years old. I mean it wasn't just let me see what you have it was actual sexual gratification and made me want to be sexual active since I was very little, although I am lucky enough to had held off until I was in my 20's, but that may also be a reason why I waited so long...because I was ashamed of sex. I mean I wanted to do it because I knew it felt good but didn't want to because i thought it was wrong....if that makes any sense?

[Spring Angel]

Hi,

I think that your gut feelings are true and correct. You probably feel ashamed, dirty etc, because you believe what happened was wrong, and I agree that it may be one of, or THE root cause of your picking. I think that having the guts to ask these questions is a postive thing and I want to validate your feelings of shame and discomfort.

I too had feelings of shame and dirtiness as a child and as an adult, and could not reconcile those feelings with my memories. I have learned that my memories (visual) were "dissociated" from my memories (feelings), so I could not make the connection. Now the connection has been made, and I know that the things that my mother did to me which she said was "cleaning" me, was wrong. I was molested by her. Whether she believes what she did was wrong or not, it was wrong, and as a result of this and other treatment I received as a child I have DID (MPD).

I spent a lot of time examining my symptoms and doing internet research to figure out what the hell was wrong with me. I found my answers and got into therapy and got psychiatric help.

Nothing can change what happened to you, but if you keep searching, you can find your answers and get help to recover.

If it felt wrong, it was wrong, no matter what anyone else tells you. It was wrong to you. That's all that matters.

You matter. You are a good person. You deserve to feel better, and recover from your wounds and I would like to support you in your effort.

Sending a bouquet of blue flowers, and friendship and support,

Spring

[dandelion]

thank you so much Spring Angel, you don't know how much what you just said meant. It feels so good for somebody to say that if I felt like it was wrong then it was. There are tears streaming down my face right now but it feels good to cry....I still don't know if I should confront my friend because if she was molested herself then her two other siblings should not be living in the house with her father. But also I could confirm what happened was wrong. But like you said if it has made me feel this way then it was. Thank you so much, I REALLY needed to hear what you just wrote. Thank you.

[tina]

well...

I did the same exact thing when I was little. I think I was bi-sexual then, as I am now. No harm done there.

I studied sexology in college. My dream is to be a Forensic Sexologist and study the criminality and victimology of sex crime and deviance. With that said...

You could be repressing memories of molestation. You could consult a hypnotherapist and delve into your psyche to find out.

For a long time, I wondered if I was sexually abused too. I think as women we are totally sexualized and objectified by society anyway, so we tend to take on some symptoms of being "molested" i.e. depression, low self-esteem, self destructive behavior, internalization. My childhood was certainly not the norm. I witnessed things and knew things that no child should ever be exposed to. I don't know if I was molested. I know later in life I was in a series of abusive relationships and the gamut of sexual victimization occured there.

I went on later in life to work in the sex industry, that is I became an exotic dancer. This took a mental toll on my like you would not believe. I believe this sexualization of me and striving to be perfect in a very competitive and demoralizing enviroment exacerbated my CSP and my eating disorders. Not to mention my self-esteem due to these and other factors, plummeted to very low depths.

I think the only way to conjure up these memories is to go to a hypnotist, obviously a specialist that has worked with victims before. Also remember that unhealthy and maladaptive primary relationships of any kind could be a precursor to cutting and self-infliction.

[anonymousartist]

Oh my, I recognize this situation very well. And I realize my story is not the same as yours but I feel like I should share, so you know you're not alone.

In high school I think I watched a little too much Oprah (I know the woman is good-hearted and I do enjoy her show once in a while but sometimes her "experts" are just trying to sell books). But anyway, I connected a lot of the symptoms of sexual abuse with my own life, being afraid of sex and yet being over-sexualized in private (I figured out masturbation when I was about 11. I've since learned this is not abnormal, and also realized that it wasn't connected to sexual feelings when I started. It more became sexual as I started to develop physically, which seems perfectly reasonable). I was into a lot of experimentation. And of course my barbies had sex too (I think every girl's barbies do that at some point. But mine had a few threesomes.)

A little background on me: I was physically, verbally, and emotionally abused by my father as a child, and then stalked by him for about ten years. I know that some of my memories of my father were blocked because there were things my mother remembered that I didn't. What my father did left me very distrustful and afraid of men, authority figures, and when it came to health professionals who also wanted a developing, shy girl to take off her clothes (I wasn't used to that) I would break down. But I never had any memories of being molested.

So I too began to wonder if I had repressed memories of being molested as well (my suspects were either my father or my pediatrition, partly 'cause I knew other people who went to him were fucked up as well). I felt absolutely tortured wondering whether or not I should try to remember these things (obviously they would be painful and I wouldn't want to remember them). I felt like I had all the symptoms and no memories, just suspect. Eventually I really broke down and told my mom. It was soooo scary. She didn't know what to do but she offered to get me help. She was very supportive.

Somehow that relief of telling someone made the pain and fear go away. Maybe it is possible I was victimized sexually, but I decided I don't really need to find out. I came to realize that in part my sexual experimentation was normal, and that I had symptoms of being abused because I was an abuse victim, and I think sexual and physical abuse victims will share certain characteristics. So, unless something more comes up for me, I don't want to try and make it, but that is a personal decision.

I just wanted to share this with you. I'm not a psychologist so I can't tell you if what happened was wrong (you know though, that this wasn't something that you should feel guilty about? If this was a way of dealing with molestation it was the only way you or your friend knew how to deal with it. You were little girls. There was nothing else you could have done, and to some degree that experimentation was normal). But I think the best thing you can do is find some help so that you can talk about it. It's scary, expecially when you don't know for sure, but letting this world you are carrying off your back will help you so much.

(and on the abuse note, you said you witnessed your friend's family being abused. This could have also been traumatic for you to experience even though he wasn't your father and may not have done anything specifically to you. It still had to be pretty scary. It could contribute to some of those intimacy issues as well).

Just don't think you're abnormal or guilty or dirty, ok? This happens to other people and they will support you.

[dandelion]

Wow, I can't believe how many of you went through sexual abuse, I wonder how many people on here have gone through it. It could be a big reason why many of us pick. Thank you all for sharing. Now that I have heard all of your advice and had a good night sleep and done some research on the internet, I do feel a little better this morning. I don't feel so guilty, but I know my problems are not going to go away overnight. I still really feel like I should write my friend a letter (email) and talk to her about what has happened, it might help her to talk about it too. Also I don't think we will ever have a good relationship again if it is not brought up and put aside. I have known her since I was born, and our birthdays are one day apart, so we often had our parties together as we were little. Really she is the best friend I have ever had and I would really like our friendship back.

[rachacha]

Dandelion-
I think it is really important to think about this in another way.
You have repeatedly said that you don't understand how a child could know how to touch in a sexual way.
We are all born sexual, and before puberty it is perfectly normal to experiment. Children often start to masterbate (not to fruition) when they are 3 years old. The reason children know these things is because it is inherant in ALL humans. How do you think anyone knows how to have sex? It is biology.
Most girls do this. All my girlfriends have played "sex" with their friends too. I remember when I was 7 or 8 and I was completely convinced I was pregnant from playing sex with a girl (Talk about confused!). It is a shame that doing this is so shameful to people since all of us seem to go through it in some way.
This is not being molested if the two of you mutually wanted to do this at the time. I would assume you did as you were both young.
This does NOT mean you are a lesbian either. It means you were young and experimenting.
I don't know if you were molested otherwise, but if your guilt and problems from the episode(s) with your friend when you were small is the thing that is the main thing bothering you currently, I would let relax. There was nothing wrong with what happened.
If you want to tell your friend, go for it. But I think that if you can reconcile it yourself in knowing that it it COMPLETELY normal (read any psychology book on pre-pubescent behavior) then it is probably not necessary.
I hope this helps you feel better. You might want to look up some articles online about this.

[lorieann75]

I never suffered sexual abuse of any kind, but I did just as much (perhaps more) experimenting with my female friend when we were age 6-8. I remember it very well. For me, that DID evolve into a certainty that I was bisexual as an adult, but it does NOT "mean" that for everyone and should never be taken as a "given" when it comes to sexuality imho. I think for some girls it's simple exploration. The other thing is, I remember masturbating at age 2! Yes, 2 and I vividly recall figuring out how to "climax" not too terribly long after that. Perhaps for some of us, it's something we "get to" earlier, and put more importance on. I don't know. I've never had feelings of "dirtiness" though, associated with sex or with nudity etc. Even though my mother DID have those (she was molested by her father/my grandfather) and expressed them to her kids without meaning to. I never "picked that up" from her however.

[rachacha29]

Despite continuous affirmations that what she has done is normal, Dandelion continuously seems to think that she has done something wrong. If you dont' mind, I wonder if you can tell us how old you are.
It is upsetting that you STILL feel different-that you are sure what you have done is much worse than what anyone else has. NONE of the things you described are shocking and none of them are things that others have not experienced.
I hope that writing to your friend will be helpful. Perhaps she feels more comfortable with it, and it will help you feel that way too.
I wonder if there isn't somethign else bothering you. Because the things you are talking about do not warrant this kind of anxiety. Not that you aren't allowed to feel this anxious, but that none of the things you have written are abnormal, so in reality, there is nothing to feel ashamed of.
I also felt like having sex with a kid a babysat for. All humans are sexual, and it is ok to have any disgusting thought in the world! THe difference is that you did NOT act on it, which is the difference in all people. People who ACT on these fantasies are the ones that have problems.
I hope this helps.

[hoppe]

rachacha29, I think your words are very hard. I understand dandelions feelings. I have been through a lot less 'experimenting' than what dandelion describes but I still have feelings of shame and disgust when I think about it. These feelings are not rationale. It does not help that somebody tells you what you did is 'normal'. By the way, the definition of what is 'normal' changes all the time anyway. I think Spring is right, when she says - If it felt wrong, it was wrong, no matter what anyone else tells you.

hoppe