THE question for a derm! "Things" are ?

[SleeplessInTucson]

I posted this question on the Yahoo Pickaderms site that Dr. Claiborn visits in the hopes of getting an answer. I think this board is much more active though, so maybe someone has the answer here. Or maybe you can ask your Dermatologists? Mine didn't really answer...

I realize this is most likely irrelevant to changing the behavior, but I MUST KNOW. I think that part of my drive to pick is "scientific," meaning, I just want to autopsy the little buggers.
I've not seen any detailed reference to the little white "things" that we all seem to go after. (and believe me I've searched. Acne sites, medline, burn sites, wound sites, holistic sites, etc!!!) I've seen some questions posted on sites about them, calling them
pebbles,roots,seeds,threads,tiny cysts.(I am not talking about the pus pimple, or blackheads...) Maybe they are whiteheads, but I don't think so. Plugs of sebum are always illustrated as IN the follicle or pore, and this seems to be more like a structure of the skin. They seem to be "rooted" in the deeper layers. They are in a regular pattern, like the 5 on a pair of dice. (Or so) I would guess that they are the hair follicle, but there is no hair. They seem to be the same inside and out...they are a solid. Some times individual ones get inflamed, but never pus filled. Just Big. (Huge when I was
pregnant) When they are big, I can feel them. New skin doesn't seem to adhere to the area. (I say "seem," because I know my perceptions of them may not be reality based!!!) Is it collagen? A post to attach cells to? A pore itself? I know that they are a normal component of skin, they are everywhere,under the skin, where they are supposed to be, and if I leave them alone they rarely get angry. (Never personified "them" like that! heheheheehe) If I knew what they were called, or what their function was, I think I would be happier to leave them to do their job. Can I indulge my obsession for knowledge? My dermatologist wouldn't really entertain the question, and I was too embarassed to REALLY describe them in as much detail as I just did. Anonymity is bliss!

Thanks for sharing any information you, or your dermo, has!
Sleepless

[warmfuzzygirl]

I cannot believe you asked this, because I have been wanting to ask this to *someone* for years! I thought I was the only one who damaged their skin to the point that they saw these "root" things sticking out!! (at least in my case, I notice these things when I've really done a number on a spot)

This spot on my nose (size of an Advil, mind you) has had at least three of these things in it. And for me, to have a sunken, raw, red hole with three strudy looking white bulbs poking out....geez, just pour the alcoholic a drink and set it on the table and tell him no drinky.

I'm not sure if I'm talking about the same things you are, sleepless, but I'd love to know exactly what they are.

warm fuzzy

[anne]

I know what you are talking about, I saw this "layer" in some areas that ended up scarring pretty bad You don't usually see it unless there has been some infection I think, but could be wrong. I have heard and read that collagen can have the appearance of "beads on a string" it might be the fibrin. Hard to really know. I think when they get "inflamed" as you say it is probably just the white blood cells working overtime in there an it produced the visible mucus like "pus" however this is an attempt to heal itself. I think if you get bactroban from the doctor it will remedy this pretty quick, when I used bactroban it creates a scab almost instantly and then you don't see that anymore.

Definitely don't pick it as it will then create scar tissue!!!

[pamela]

My goodness,I thougth I was so crazy trying to pull out those white things with my tweezers,because that's the "proceedure" after removed a blackhead or a pimple, it gets infected, then forms a scab, take the scab away and when it's about to heal I plug (sometimes succesfully, other times not).
The strange thing is that if I manage to get it out I feel like that one's ready.
How sick are we?

[Sleepless in tucson]

I don't know if we are crazy. As I see it, no one has given me a rational explanation of what they are. Since I can't figure out how to get rid of them with products, and they NEVER come out on their own...I'll pull 'em myself if they are irritated.
Anne, they are NOT pus. It is hard, or waxy. Possibly just sebum, but like I said, since when does sebum have a ROOT??? Dr. Claiborn responded to my post and essentially said, "don't worry about what they are, just leave them alone..."
Sorry. Not good enough. (yes he is a psych. and not a derm)
but before you call me crazy, tell me what these things are. If I still yank them out, then maybe I AM nuts! Until then, I am a researcher!!!
Hehehehehe
Jenni the mad scientist in Tucson

[pamela]

ha ha ha ha ha

[anonymousartist]

wasn't sure at first what you guys were talking about but then I realized it's those bastard things that don't pop or come out or go away no matter how hard you pick! It's the reason I have an enlarged pore on my nose (for some lucky reason my face is not scarred otherwise).

I think all we can do is admit that nothing is going to get rid of these and do the best to leave them alone. We can't change it anymore than the size of our noses.

[anne]

I actually do know what you are talking about and no, there's no real pus, but I think if they get inflamed it is from white blood cells all the same. I only really remember seeing like a whole layer of them when my scars got bad from allergic dermatitis caused by neosporin and it just kept getting worse and worse till all I saw were all those stringy things with roots in them and I actually could easily pick them out, but then they would just grow back. When the skin would grow over it, it did make it look kind of lumpy like it wasn't healing right. If you look up the definition of fibrin on the net it does describe stringy white things and this is what starts the process for collagen. I think even though they look weird and seem in the way we need to let them reside in the skin because they are trying to build collagen

[anne]

www.kcl.ac.uk/kis/schools/life_sciences/biomed/bscb/newsletter/summer2001/schools.html

That article talks about a fibrin "plug" (sounds like the root-- other articles I've seen about fibrin talk about how it forms into a string too. White blood cells helps it do the job to fight off infection. It is interesting to learn about how our skin works.

[pamela]

Anne thanks for the link, the article is very very interesting.

[Glamourpuss15]

Too funny!

I just wrote about this is my post about the "Tiny blisters on my face". Well, the blisters were shingles. But with all the stress of learning that I had shingles...and that they were all over the left side of my face...I started extracting as much white stuff from the pores around my nose as possible.

I have had two huge wounds where I have been digging. And it hurts for me to talk and make facial expressions.

I have been quite successful tweezing out these white menaces. But now I am left with what looks like swiss cheese. Little holes (pores, I know) that I don't think are going to close.

Interesting insights, everyone! Thanks!

[anonymousartist]

If these things perhaps are collagen, maybe they have a purpose of keeping the pores elastic and able to close? (I'm reaching, I don't really know). But the one I really dug out on my nose is now enlarged and probably won't ever shrink back either.

[SleeplessInTucson]

AnonArtist and all,
I keep researching... (can you say obsession??)
Fibrin and collagen are both microscopic...types of cells. (proteins I believe.) Not "structures" The "granular layer" is in close to the right spot, but the granulars are red...skin underlayers.
I went through a Gray's anatomy...nothing much in there other than hair follicles oil glands and sweat glands. Both of those glands come off the follicle. The oil gland is coiled up. The sweat gland...well maybe. I also looked up Milia again. These are little tiny cysts. Photos show them visible from the surface. Like white pearls under the skin. Perhaps our "things" are pre-milia??? Milia are thought to be plugs of the sweat glands. To much cell slough inside them. Mostly happens with dry skin. I am still leaning to the follicle explanation for my white "thing" mystery, although I still don't get why the hair isn't there. Maybe face hair is just so tiny that it isn't seen? Or is pulled out earlier in the pick fest, and therefore is not there by the time I get to the base of the follicle. Like I said. They are everywhere...so the milia explanation doesn't really work. By the way, Milia are usually seen around the eyes, so I think it was Anne that had noticed her white things there. milia are best resolved by exfoliation to provide a path out for the plug. I accessed a site that derms were posting on. Many of them like to use electrolysis on them!!! Yikes. And we think we experiment with tools!!!!!
Another things I saw briefly mentioned somewhere is that the follicles do have a role in skin healing. I do want to find out more about that. But that is good reason to leave my things alone!!

I am violently premenstrual. And depressed. Feels like my effexor isn't working.
Cool...if too much coffee makes me nervous, would that rule out ADD (without the H) as a diagnosis? Do I need stimulents if I can't tolerate too much java??? I am walking around the house is a daze all week. Cannot get motivated to do anything productive.
Sigh.
Husband getting a little annoyed too.
Me too.
Sleepless

[anonymousartist]

I think a really good psychiatrist needs to do the ruling out of or diagnosis of ADD. (There is a new non-stimulant drug on the market. It could be stimulents were just the first things that worked for some people, maybe not the best overall, who knows).

I kinda daze off a lot in my apartment. I'm big on vegging out. If you need rest, you need rest. If you're just indecisive about what to do, leave and go do something else (go for a nature walk, or just a walk). Put on some nice music. Maybe do some cleaning, but not just as a chore, but rather to transform your space. Caffeine is supposed to be bad for PMS, but also if you've had a lot of it lately and you're quitting, you probably need a little bit to get rid of the coming down effects. I totally cried at my mom on the phone yesterday 'cause I was PMSing and having a bad day. I never really felt that overemotional (and didn't even realize it was PMS) just for no seeming reason before, so I felt silly calling my mom all upset but we talked and it really made me feel better.

[anne]

You could be right about the milia. I read that it is often caused by trauma to the skin (picking) and also occlusive dressings, (like ointments not stop) when my skin was blistering and getting bad all I did was apply ointment and then I saw it. Also I had used some manuka honey because I heard it was good for cuts/burns, however it stung kind of bad when I applied it and now I'm wondering if it didn't make it worse. Around the time I was using it my skin starting getting HARD, very weird, and then I was on a steroid creams and even prednisone and cortisone shots in my hip for awhile. My skin still has these HARD lumps under it, which is supposedly not hypertrophic scarring but my doc doesn't quite know what it is. I've also noticed an abundance of fine hairs coming out of the areas, wondered if it was from steroid creams.

So while researching the milia I saw there is this blistering disease which causes fragile skin and milia and can cause hardening of the skin and excess hair growth, abreviations for it is PCT--so I am kind of freaked hoping I don't have an actual disease, caused by liver enzymes gone bad I think I'd rather be a picker in remission However the hard lumps and weird scars have never happened from picking to me before now.